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Thread: Kinetico ability to remove iron

  1. #1
    jotterpinky is offline Junior Member
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    Default Kinetico ability to remove iron

    We drilled a new well 2 months ago for our new house. While painting and after moving in we noticed that the water was orange / yellowish. After running the faucets for a while it dissapates and runs clear. However the next day it seems to be back to it's usual color and needs to be run for another hour to clear up.

    We took some water in to be tested to our local Kinetico dealer. He tested it and told us that it was all "ferrous" iron in the water and that a water softener would clear it up. In fact while discussing this he promised me that he was 100% sure that the softener would clear up the problem. He seemed to be very knowledgeable about the entire problem, since he said it was common in our area. We ended up purchasing a Kinetico 2060s model.

    The unit has been installed for two days now and does not seem to be making any difference whatsoever. After running a large amount of water from both hot and cold to make sure they were both clear and that our pipes were thoroughly flushed out we thought everything was great. The next day the water was orange / yellow again. I used a test strip to check to make sure we were getting soft water (that the unit was actually working) and it showed soft water. I also tested the water coming from our kitchen sink that is unsoftened and it showed approx 250 ppm (15 gpg) of hardness.

    Upon inspection of the owners manual it stated to use "Iron Fighter" salt pellets to help manage iron...the Kinetico salesman said nothing of this when we discussed it with him. Do they work to remove iron or not?

    Several other questions. First is the Kinetico salesman correct in his assumption that a softener is able to take care of this problem or does he simply want to sell me equipment? If the softener should take care of the problem what other things should I check to see why it's not working? If a softener is not the right solution...what is?

  2. #2
    jotterpinky is offline Junior Member
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    Gary,

    I appreciate your response. It seems to confirm what I just heard this morning. Another dealer trying to sell me a water softener told me that Kinetico softeners would not handle what I wanted. He recommended an "Eco Water" iron filter and softener combination system which would certainly do the job.

    I also took water samples (one hard unsoftened water, and another softened) to the dealer who sold me the Kinetico. He was basically at a loss to explain why we were still getting yellow water. He ran an iron test and showed me the results of both the softened and unsoftened water. The softened water from the Kinetico did show less iron on the test but not completely removed. However visible inspection by myself at home shows virtually no difference between the two in terms of yellowish color.

    The dealer thought that I might have some residue remaining in my piping that would contribute to the amount found in the softened water. He thinks I need to wait several weeks for it to clear up. I have a hard time believing this since our home is brand new and we've only been running water for about two months, and actually lived at the place for one month. I can't imagine much buildup in the piping which looks like it's PVC. It also looks the same regardless of whether I run hot water or cold...seems like the hot water would probably have more residue since it runs through our water heater.

    As for the iron bacteria he also said it usually leaves a slimy residue in the toilet tank. I've checked there and it isn't what I would call atypical. The tank along the edge where the water level sits feels slimy and there are bubbles on the water surface so there is definitely some bacterial growth...but not the way he described. The water in the tank itself doesn't feel slimy at all.

    The dealer further stated that I might also have tannins or iron bacteria that could be causing the yellow water problem. He seemed to think that a well as deep as ours would not have tannins (110 ft deep) but was possible. He wanted to send a water sample directly to Kinetico to run some further tests on it. He stated that if it was tannins he would be able to treat that by adding some resin beads to the tops of the tanks specifically designed for that purpose. If it was iron bacteria he thought a can (looked like string wrapped) filter would remove the iron bacteria.


    Are these treatment ideas valid if we have either tannins or iron bacteria?
    Should I try to purchase some "Iron Fighter" salt pellets to try?

  3. #3
    NH Master is offline Senior Member
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    [QUOTE=jotterpinky]Gary,

    I appreciate your response. It seems to confirm what I just heard this morning. Another dealer trying to sell me a water softener told me that Kinetico softeners would not handle what I wanted. He recommended an "Eco Water" iron filter and softener combination system which would certainly do the job.

    He should offer to remove the unit, refund your total price and then propose what he would use to solve the problems, hardness, ferric and ferrous iron etc. and then you should compare his price to online and other local dealers' prices and equipment. You can save substantial bucks by buying online and installing it yourself or hiring a plumber to do it.

    You did get the not so subtle inference that you should scrap the whole thing and buy your system from him, yes?

  4. #4
    Andy CWS is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by jotterpinky

    We took some water in to be tested to our local Kinetico dealer.
    I recommend having him come personally to your home and retest the water on site. There should be no cost to you for this. Before throwing in the towel get them to stand by their product, but get him to come out. Taking water samples at the location can make big difference. It also provides you the opportunity to demonstrate your situation and make it clear it needs to be corrected satisfactorily.

    If you have ferric iron (or a mix of ferrous and ferric), then it will not work. Is there a prefilter? Do you have an iron count (ppm)? What is your pH and TDS? Get a glass of water and hold it to a light, is there an 'oily' slick on the surface?

    Tannins can discolor water, often a tea-color. A separate tannin test would determine that, so have them bring one out or a tannin demo filter. The Kinetico tannin-softener works differently than your unit and just adding tannin resin is not recommend.

    Kinetico, Inc., does have an extensive lab and can do tests for you. I have never charged my customers for this and a printout is provided.

    Simple filters are not recommended for organic (bacterial) iron as they will clog up rapidly. If well-chlorination becomes a common procedure, then a sanitation system may need to be installed as the problem is determined to be chronic in nature and on-going treatment is needed.

    Special iron salt may be needed but tell me what your iron count is first.


    Andy Christensen, CWS-II

  5. #5
    Driller1 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy CWS
    I recommend having him come personally to your home and retest the water on site. There should be no cost to you for this. Before throwing in the towel get them to stand by their product, but get him to come out. Taking water samples at the location can make big difference. It also provides you the opportunity to demonstrate your situation and make it clear it needs to be corrected satisfactorily.

    If you have ferric iron (or a mix of ferrous and ferric), then it will not work. Is there a prefilter? Do you have an iron count (ppm)? What is your pH and TDS? Get a glass of water and hold it to a light, is there an 'oily' slick on the surface?

    Tannins can discolor water, often a tea-color. A separate tannin test would determine that, so have them bring one out or a tannin demo filter. The Kinetico tannin-softener works differently than your unit and just adding tannin resin is not recommend.

    Kinetico, Inc., does have an extensive lab and can do tests for you. I have never charged my customers for this and a printout is provided.

    Simple filters are not recommended for organic (bacterial) iron as they will clog up rapidly. If well-chlorination becomes a common procedure, then a sanitation system may need to be installed as the problem is determined to be chronic in nature and on-going treatment is needed.

    Special iron salt may be needed but tell me what your iron count is first.


    Andy Christensen, CWS-II
    Whoa!!!! If he does that, and does not buy from Gary, how will Gary pay his bills???
    Last edited by Driller1; 01-15-2010 at 12:11 PM.
    Trying to help people NOT get cheated ON THE NET.

  6. #6
    jotterpinky is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks everyone for your thoughts. After having a glass of water sit out for about 30 hours it appears as though nothing settles to the bottom. I'm planning on waiting to see the exact results of the tests from Kinetico. If the dealer doesn't have a viable treatment plan I'm going to demand a refund and take my business elsewhere, from the way it sounds he's running a Mickey Mouse show.

    As for the Iron Bacteria which from what you've described is likely, I've read the treatment is to "shock chlorinate" the well. I talked to our well driller and he thinks this is the cheapest option to try first. He thought we might have to do it every couple months but that the treatment times would get further and further apart and eventually become unnecessary. However he also warned that it might require a chlorinator if it's really chronic. What are your thoughts on this method of treatment, does it work? Should I be aware of anything before doing it?

  7. #7
    Andy CWS is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by jotterpinky
    Thanks everyone for your thoughts. After having a glass of water sit out for about 30 hours it appears as though nothing settles to the bottom. I'm planning on waiting to see the exact results of the tests from Kinetico. If the dealer doesn't have a viable treatment plan I'm going to demand a refund and take my business elsewhere, from the way it sounds he's running a Mickey Mouse show.

    As for the Iron Bacteria which from what you've described is likely, I've read the treatment is to "shock chlorinate" the well. I talked to our well driller and he thinks this is the cheapest option to try first. He thought we might have to do it every couple months but that the treatment times would get further and further apart and eventually become unnecessary. However he also warned that it might require a chlorinator if it's really chronic. What are your thoughts on this method of treatment, does it work? Should I be aware of anything before doing it?
    You may have tannins. Kinetico has a very effective tannin softener but certain conditions and equipment must be correctly set up. Is there a history of this in your area? Tannins are very easy to treat. How deep is your well? Are you near surface water areas such as marhes, swamps, ancient lakes and other high water table areas? Where are you located?

    Another way is to see tannins is to put a lot of water in a white tub and see if the color is consistent and constant. Ihave a mini-tannin filter and if I pass tannin water through it, it clears up.

    Shocking the well won't clear up tannins but may affect/take care of other problems. Although bacterial iron CAN be filtered, it neither recommended nor very practical. Again, determining the actual problem is essential. There are numerous approaches to chlorination for purposes of sanitation.

    I think you are right to get further testing so that you can be aware of exactly what you are up against. Did they specify what tests were being conducted?

    Has anyone actually been to your location? There is always a risk of buying equipment without know all the water conditions that need to be addressed, especially, if they are unusual. Also, if the person selling cannot make a personal visit to be assured that what he recommends would work, this can increase the chance of a misdiagnosis. Even then, additional third-party testing may be required. Fortunately you have a brick and morton business to go for inquires, support, and demands, if necessary.

    Andy Christensen, CWS-II

  8. #8
    pawaterguy is offline Senior Member
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    Kinetico will remove just as much iron as any other unit. you want to filter ahead of it on every install regardless of iron content to protect the head from getting ironed up and ruining the operation of the gearing and valves. but, if sized properly and installed correctly (just like any system) it will remove the iron just the same as any other properly sized unit would.

  9. #9
    NH Master is offline Senior Member
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    Emphasis on "sold", not "serviced" If the water is that bad it will indeed plug the valve head up on ANYBODY'S equipment. I have a couple of boxes full of heads in that very condition sitting in the back of the stock room. With every post you make your self anointed expertise seems to falter. You should quit while you are behind

  10. #10
    pawaterguy is offline Senior Member
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    I'll note that around here iron and low PH seem tog o hand in hand so generally when the iron is a big issue there is a 1500 neutralizer catching it ahead of the softener. I prefer a 1500 side mount A/N with a top plug over any other neutralizer. Easy to service and more important easy to fill.

  11. #11
    pawaterguy is offline Senior Member
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    and I service an area where some well pumps are given acid drip lines to keep the pump from clogging...that's how thick the iron is. if you bypass the neutralizers it looks like chocolate milk coming through the line.

  12. #12
    pawaterguy is offline Senior Member
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    don't forget heart disease. one of the reasons we always sell dechlors whenever chlorine is present...whether city water or a well where it's added.

  13. #13
    NH Master is offline Senior Member
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    Indeed. Chlorine is a known carcinogen besides that it is very hard on piping, valves and fixtures. We don't do a lot with chlorine feeders of any type anymore.

  14. #14
    pawaterguy is offline Senior Member
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    shower head filter? you really recommend this over removing the chlorine for the entire house that will kill their softener resin, seals throughout the house, their health...etc etc etc??? And, do you at least talk about an RO for drinking water?
    Last edited by pawaterguy; 03-10-2010 at 11:02 PM.

  15. #15
    NH Master is offline Senior Member
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    Haow about not injecting chlorine in the first place. Dooooh

  16. #16
    Andy CWS is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by pawaterguy
    don't forget heart disease. one of the reasons we always sell dechlors whenever chlorine is present...whether city water or a well where it's added.
    I sent you a PM

    Andy

  17. #17
    showghost is offline Junior Member
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    Default Iron in my well too

    I just read about your problem with your well and it sounds exactly the same as my problem. It was drilled 5 years ago 280 ft, 80-gpm. When we turn the hydrant on it runs brown-yellowish so bad I can't see through the water in a glass, then it clears right up and runs and tastes great. Let it sit for a while, turn it back on and it does the same thing again. There's not much consistency in how long it takes to turn brown again. some times the same day, some times the next day. We let a glass sit out and it did not clear up overnight, what I've read is that we have colloidal iron. We do not have iron bacteria, the water doesn't smell for leave slime. We have an iron casing with a galvanized pipe to the pump. Is it true the pipe could be rusting this early (5 years old)? The well driller has suggested lining the well with PVC? We did try shocking once and it cleared up for a few weeks but is back to doing the same thing again. Our neighbors well (100 yards away) is 240 ft, metal casing, 25 years old, no problems. Any suggestions out there...

  18. #18
    Lazy Days is offline Junior Member
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    As a fellow beginner, check the date of the last reply, it was last March.
    Just start a new thread.

  19. #19
    showghost is offline Junior Member
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    Thank You

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