Need 2 Whole house filtration systems-conflicting advise

[johnnymac]

i have 2 homes that need filtation. the first is in Northern Calfornia on a managed well shared by 100 homes. [LIST]
manganese 1100 ppb
hardness 300 mg/l
Sodium 130 mg/l
chloride 280 mg/l
color 7 units
arsenic 0
barium 0.04 mg/l
sulfate 15 mg/l
lead 0 > AL
copper 0 > AL
coliform 0
one consultant said we had...
50 grains hardness
1.48 iron
1.98 maganese
i get conflicting suggestions from 3 different filtration suppliers. just looking for the right answers. do i need a calcite filter? is carbon really only for chlorine removal? is there a non salt softener that works well? do we need a UV light?

our 2nd home is in Mexico. municipal water but gets contaminated along the way to our holding tank ( 5,000 gal cistern). trying to get analysis but appears to really only be a sediment and bacteria issue. local supplier says to use ozinator, carbon filter, softener and UV. california guy says the simple Ozone generators really don't do anything and to use pre filter, green sand filter, softener and UV...

Given that both homes are 3 bedroom/bath what equipment type, make and specs should we use?


.

[Andy CWS]

Firstly, your questions bout equipment:

A calcite filter/media is used to raise pH to around 7. Since you have 50 grains hardness, you wouldn't need that at all. UVs are used as a disinfectant and I see no reports where that is an issue.

Are th first set of measurements the CA home and the seconf NM home? Try to define which is which becasue making suggestions will depend on accurate information.

The iron level is not HIGH but will cause iron stains. The manganese is also high and will likely cause black stains or particles in the water. Iron, manganese and hardness can be removed with a softener.

Carbon is not ONLY for chloine removal. A GAC carbon filter is primarily for odor, clearity and taste. A VOC carbon filter can treate more chemical compoinds like pesticides, herbicides, etc. These are more expensive and flow rates must be considered.

Ozone generators can provide wonderful results given certain parameters. These are expensive and must be 'engineered' to work properly.

At your housing complex in CA, what do neighbors use? Are you paying a monthly service fee and/or being metered?

It is important to be serious about your water but don't make the mistake and rush into a treatment without understanding your water and options.

Others will join in, I am sure. We are not allowed to sell you anything or even offer our own personal services, but you may get some good advice.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

[johnnymac]

thanks a bunch.
those measurements are for the california house. i do not have an analysis for mexico yet. the few neighbors in cal i spoke with are using this one company that suggests the calcite filter along with a Kenetico softener. the well for this water system is literally at a guys house next to a brackish river that goes into the SF bay. there are about 120 homes on this water system. they do not add chlorine. i don't believe anyone pays for a service like Culligan, they just have the equipment installed. the local reseller said carbon only treats chlorine ( first clue he may not be spot on). he also said for mexico a ozone system for 5,000 gal cistern would be $20,000 to do it right for that size. my guy down there was quoting $2,000. I trust this guy in Mexico, he's done a bunch of local systems, i just don't like it when other "pros" contradict what i'm getting ready to plunk down $5,000 on.
thanks...

[Andy CWS]

Ozone systems can be placed in cisterns to maintain clear water and act as a disinfectant.
http://www.tripleo.com/process.htm
Chlorine/chlorination-dechlorination systems are also very effective.

Trusting your water dealer is a big help. Knowing that he is available and can examine the water/equipment on-site as well as personally handle service issues is valuable.

I am still wondering why a Calcite filter is being recommended. It is designed to elevate pH. Is your pH below 7.0?

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

[Gary Slusser]

the few neighbors in cal i spoke with are using this one company that suggests the calcite filter along with a Kenetico softener.

the local reseller said carbon only treats chlorine ( first clue he may not be spot on). he also said for mexico a ozone system for 5,000 gal cistern would be $20,000 to do it right for that size. my guy down there was quoting $2,000. I trust this guy in Mexico, he's done a bunch of local systems, i just don't like it when other "pros" contradict what i'm getting ready to plunk down $5,000 on.
thanks...

Kinetico is proprietary equipment that requires you to be dependent on the one'n only local dealer for parts and service.

You don't list the pH in the test results, so possibly the CA water is acidic or, he is using it for something else but no one but him can tell you what or why.

Carbon is basically used to remove chlorine and tastes and odors when there is no bacteria of any kind present. I think that is what he meant, that as an example, it shouldn't be used for the removal of H2S on it's own.

Ozone and getting enough of it into a 5000 gal tank here in the US and especially high priced in CA would be extremely expensive and questionable if it would treat all 5000 gallons successfully anywhere.

And since the cistern is an atmospheric storage tank open to air, any iron and manganese will oxidize and settle out to the bottom of the tank without any oxidizer, so why do you need ozone to treat the cistern instead treating the water as you draw it from the cistern just before using it? That would require a much smaller ozone system etc.. Also, why follow ozone with UV? IMO that would be if there was a concern that the ozone didn't do a complete job. Ozone is very difficult to generate, plus generate a consistent amount of it plus, it's much harder the higher the humidity goes, which usually calls for an air dryer with its high expense and maintenance requirements.

All that is why "other "pros" contradict" others; some are not willing to fully disclose all the facts, good and bad, about all the various choices of equipment that are used to do the same job.

One more thing, ozone is the most powerful and fastest acting (and most expensive) oxidizer and/or disinfectant known to man, and if your cistern is galvanized as I presume, the oxidation effect on galvanized steel is not good.

On the other hand, Andy is a Kinetico salesman and rarely says anything negative about Kinetico dealers.

[Driller1]

Kinetico is proprietary equipment that requires you to be dependent on the one'n only local dealer for parts and service.

You don't list the pH in the test results, so possibly the CA water is acidic or, he is using it for something else but no one but him can tell you what or why.

Carbon is basically used to remove chlorine and tastes and odors when there is no bacteria of any kind present. I think that is what he meant, that as an example, it shouldn't be used for the removal of H2S on it's own.

Ozone and getting enough of it into a 5000 gal tank here in the US and especially high priced in CA would be extremely expensive and questionable if it would treat all 5000 gallons successfully anywhere.

And since the cistern is an atmospheric storage tank open to air, any iron and manganese will oxidize and settle out to the bottom of the tank without any oxidizer, so why do you need ozone to treat the cistern instead treating the water as you draw it from the cistern just before using it? That would require a much smaller ozone system etc.. Also, why follow ozone with UV? IMO that would be if there was a concern that the ozone didn't do a complete job. Ozone is very difficult to generate, plus generate a consistent amount of it plus, it's much harder the higher the humidity goes, which usually calls for an air dryer with its high expense and maintenance requirements.

All that is why "other "pros" contradict" others; some are not willing to fully disclose all the facts, good and bad, about all the various choices of equipment that are used to do the same job.

One more thing, ozone is the most powerful and fastest acting (and most expensive) oxidizer and/or disinfectant known to man, and if your cistern is galvanized as I presume, the oxidation effect on galvanized steel is not good.

On the other hand, Andy is a Kinetico salesman and rarely says anything negative about Kinetico dealers.

I find it perfectly normal for Andy to be familiar with his systems. It would be a negative if he did not.

I have read many of Andy's posts on many forums. I find them both honest and informative.

He has the good judgement to state his view without belittling the views of others. For this I respect and highly recommend him.

[Andy CWS]

Driller, welcome to the forum. I may have well drilling questions to ask once in a while. It is good to have someone to seek inofromation on that topic.

Andy

[johnnymac]

Been away from email for a bit. i have received a few more bids/suggestions. the PH of my water is around 6.5 for our california house and we do not have chlorine in our water.
i got two more bids and both are very expensive. i just want to get it right the 1st time and for the right amount of dinero.

from Lifesource. we have friends ( in L.A.) that swear by it but the salesman didn't have of back up knowledge of what their equipment does versus other systems. they are suggesting.
1- their active charcoal filter $2875
2- their IMS 20 filter with Pyrolox ( limestone product). $2400
no water softener.
KINETICO DEALER
13" x 54" calcite filter and a Kinetico 2100= $3769 w/o installation.

these both seem real high.. i am a builder but do not typically deal with filtration... but nonetheless hate to pay so much for so little
any thoughts guys??

thanks,,,, johnny mac