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Thread: Noobie - Whole house water treatment system question

  1. #1
    Doozy8 is offline Junior Member
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    Default Noobie - Whole house water treatment system question

    Hello all, I am new to this site as well as water treatment systems. I found this site while doing some research of my own.

    I currently have a private well in NJ and I have the "rotten egg" smell which I believe is sulfur, I also have a high iron count (I believe 10) and I also have hard water. I believe my flow rate is about 23gpm. I also have a 12 zone (6-8 heads each zone) irrigation system that currently bypasses my current system. I am not sure of the gpm each head is capable of, but I have yellow staining on brick and fences. I also have iron bacteria in my toilet tanks. My towels stink after one use and get staining below the water line in my toilet.

    I first spoke with a local water treatment company who tried to sell me a twin tank Kinetico and covert my current tank to remove the sulfur and use my existing water softener tank as well as a new brine tank to chlorinate the water. Original quote was $3500 which is more than I could spend right now, so he offered me a certified used system installed with my tank conversion for $2200.
    After some research and speaking to someone at x, I was given new info that the Kinetico system is old technology and isn't the right system for me. I was then offered a chlorine injection system and a Terminox 12" at budget. I also asked the guy there if this system would be sufficient to run my irrigation system through and was told yes. This whole system would have been 1700 delivered but not installed.

    I am so lost and confused because I have been told by a few water treatment companies that a dual tank system is the best way to go so there is no downtime. I am not so concerned about a 30 minute cycle at 2-3am, I want to make sure I can get rid of the iron, hardness and sulfur so the water quality is improved. We are not so concerned about drinking since we have Poland Springs delivered but it would be much nicer to have good quality water.

    Sorry for the long post (especially as a first timer) but any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you all in advance.
    Last edited by rscardigno; 06-10-2011 at 12:52 PM.

  2. #2
    NH Master is offline Senior Member
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    What do you have for equipment now and what shape is it in.

    What you need is

    Iron filter - birm type
    chlorine injection - for the bacterial iron
    Softener for the hardness
    Charcoal filter for the HS

  3. #3
    Doozy8 is offline Junior Member
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    I currently have a tank with a head unit, and honestly I have no idea what it is for and I have a drum that the salt goes into. I am assuming it's the cheapest possible set up the builder could have went with to pass inspection.

    Is the set up that the guy from budget try to sell me sufficient?

    I appreciate your recommendation, but what type of equipment (brand, size, etc...) should I get? Also, would I be able to have my irrigation system run through it?

    Thank you very much

  4. #4
    Gary Slusser is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozy8
    I currently have a private well in NJ and I have the "rotten egg" smell which I believe is sulfur, I also have a high iron count (I believe 10) and I also have hard water.

    I believe my flow rate is about 23gpm.

    I also have a 12 zone (6-8 heads each zone) irrigation system that currently bypasses my current system. I am not sure of the gpm each head is capable of, but I have yellow staining on brick and fences. I also have iron bacteria in my toilet tanks. My towels stink after one use and get staining below the water line in my toilet.

    I first spoke with a local water treatment company who tried to sell me a twin tank Kinetico and covert my current tank to remove the sulfur and use my existing water softener tank as well as a new brine tank to chlorinate the water. Original quote was $3500 which is more than I could spend right now, so he offered me a certified used system installed with my tank conversion for $2200.

    After some research and speaking to someone at water, I was given new info that the Kinetico system is old technology and isn't the right system for me. I was then offered a chlorine injection system and a Terminox 12" at budget. I also asked the guy at budget if this system would be sufficient to run my irrigation system through and was told yes. This whole system would have been 1700 delivered but not installed.

    I am so lost and confused because I have been told by a few water treatment companies that a dual tank system is the best way to go so there is no downtime. I am not so concerned about a 30 minute cycle at 2-3am, I want to make sure I can get rid of the iron, hardness and sulfur so the water quality is improved. We are not so concerned about drinking since we have Poland Springs delivered but it would be much nicer to have good quality water.
    An old or new Kinetico or other brand twin tank type softener is not going to remove IRB or H2S gas. If Kinetico suggested just a softener, stay away because they don't know what they are doing and especially with 10 ppm of iron and IRB.

    To run the irrigation water through equipment, the equipment is going to be larger than 12" or it won't work very long.

    You can not use Birm or carbon with H2S or IRB present.

    The chlorine will oxidize the iron and kill all bacteria.

    The carbon will remove the dirt the oxidation causes and the chlorine.

    The softener then only has to deal with the hardness, saving salt and water.
    Last edited by rscardigno; 06-10-2011 at 12:53 PM.

  5. #5
    Doozy8 is offline Junior Member
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    So I spoke to the local water treatment company that is recommending the Kinetico system. I asked what is in the new tanks, and here is what I got. The 2 new tanks will contain a cat ion resin to remove the negatively charged ions. My current tank will be converted to either a catalytic carbon or activated carbon (depending on what my test results come back as) to remove the H2S. My existing brine tank would still be used as a softener and a new smaller brine tank (11" x 11") would be used as a chlorinator. One option would be to add another tank which would include calcite to raise the PH. This Kinetico system would be a rebuilt system and would run me $2200 including install, but not the extra tank to raise the PH. That would run about another $500. Cost is definitely a factor for me at this point as well as install since I don't think I am comfortable myself to do any plumbing work and the Kinetico system will have a 5 year warranty.

    Can anyone give their opinion this?

    He told me my water hardness was 6, my iron was 1 and my PH was 6.5. I am getting independent results from the EPA and I will go off that but that is what they told me I have in the meantime.

    Thanks!

  6. #6
    NH Master is offline Senior Member
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    sounds good to me.

  7. #7
    Gary Slusser is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozy8
    So I spoke to the local water treatment company that is recommending the Kinetico system. I asked what is in the new tanks, and here is what I got. The 2 new tanks will contain a cat ion resin to remove the negatively charged ions.
    Cation resin removes positive charged ions, not negative. So cation resin is used in a softener.


    Quote Originally Posted by Doozy8
    My current tank will be converted to either a catalytic carbon or activated carbon (depending on what my test results come back as) to remove the H2S.
    Regular (activated) carbon will not last long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doozy8
    My existing brine tank would still be used as a softener and a new smaller brine tank (11" x 11") would be used as a chlorinator. One option would be to add another tank which would include calcite to raise the PH. This Kinetico system would be a rebuilt system and would run me $2200 including install, but not the extra tank to raise the PH. That would run about another $500. Cost is definitely a factor for me at this point as well as install since I don't think I am comfortable myself to do any plumbing work and the Kinetico system will have a 5 year warranty.
    I wouldn't use a salt tank as a solution tank, I'd spend the same money for a real solution feeder tank that has a space for the installation of the feeder pump. And you will not like the babysitting that a solution feeder requires. And I don't hear any mention of a retention tank. Solution feeders without a properly sized retention tank usually don't work well for very long.

    Plus buying national brand equipment, especially Kinetico, you can not get parts or service from anyone but the one'n only local dealer, for whatever they want to charge you for them and usually they won't sell the customer parts so normally you won't be able to replace a part yourself. And paying $2200 for a used softener etc. with new resin is proof of those high prices. Resin costs like $100 per cuft delivered. Read that warranty very carefully.

    IMO you would do much better by buying online and hiring a plumber to install it or, do the simple plumbing yourself without soldering. All you need are a couple wrenches or Channel Lock type pliers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doozy8
    He told me my water hardness was 6, my iron was 1 and my PH was 6.5. I am getting independent results from the EPA and I will go off that but that is what they told me I have in the meantime.
    You do not need a twin tank type softener unless you use water 24/7, and it is the rare house that does that.

  8. #8
    Doozy8 is offline Junior Member
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    Would catalytic carbon last longer?

    I should have my results from the EPA around 5pm EST today. I will post them and hopefully I can get some feedback on obtaining an online system at a good price.

    Thanks

  9. #9
    Doozy8 is offline Junior Member
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    here are the test results from the EPA (please see attachments). Thanks guys
    Attached Files Attached Files

  10. #10
    Gary Slusser is offline Banned
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    ummm I've seen thousands of water analysis reports but never one like that! Plus the scan quality makes it hard to read.

    So rather than us taking an hour to root through all that extraneous info, what do they tell you that you have too much of or, what do you want to treat the water for?

  11. #11
    Doozy8 is offline Junior Member
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    Sorry, looks like foreign language to me as well, but I guess when the EPA does the water analysis they look for different stuff than a water treatment guy :-)

    Here is what I can figure from this report:
    Arsenic - 953.8 mg/L
    Chromium - 25.3 mg/L
    Iron - 22.93 ppb
    Magnesium - 23.42 ppb
    Manganese - 3.757 ppb
    Sodium - 59210 ppb (could be due to my current softner)
    Lead - 3.126 ppb

    There are no recommendations at this point since the EPA test was an independent test and done by a neighbor but he said the results are "acceptable" and he doesn't see anything.
    Does anything stand out to anyone with water treatment experience?

  12. #12
    Gary Slusser is offline Banned
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    Arsenic and sodium looks very high to me but you need raw water tests, not after the softener but the softener sure isn't working.

  13. #13
    Doozy8 is offline Junior Member
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    I will see if I can get another test next week from before the softener. How does the iron and manganese look. He told me he couldn't test for sulfur, but I smell it with hot and cold water. My hardness was 6 I believe and the PH was 6.5 in one test and about 6.0-6.2 on another test. I strongly believe there is iron due to the staining on my brick and fences from my irrigation system, as well as the iron bacteria in my toilet tanks.

  14. #14
    Gary Slusser is offline Banned
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    You should use the results Kinetico gave you. They have no reason to lie to you about water test results. There is no test forH2S as good as the human nose.

  15. #15
    Doozy8 is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks Gary. So do you have any full system recommendations for me at this point? Or do you suggest I go with the rebuilt Kinetico system my local water treatment company suggested? Am I thinking that probably isn't the case

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    UpgradingMyHome is offline Junior Member
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    Hey all... Just had a quick question. We just bought our first home and I'm always looking at ways to improve or raise the value of it. We were offered a GE water treatment system a few months ago and I was just curious if we should have gotten it or not. We didn't get it because it was $2500... should we have gotten it? Was that a "steal" for a water treatment system for the entire house?

  17. #17
    Akpsdvan is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpgradingMyHome
    Hey all... Just had a quick question. We just bought our first home and I'm always looking at ways to improve or raise the value of it. We were offered a GE water treatment system a few months ago and I was just curious if we should have gotten it or not. We didn't get it because it was $2500... should we have gotten it? Was that a "steal" for a water treatment system for the entire house?
    2500 for a GE Autrol valve and what kind of media in what size tank?

    Sounds close to the price for one of my systems installed....

    What kind of water do you have , iron hardness, ph smell... and the number of people, number of bathrooms, number of bedrooms... they all factor into the type and size of equipment needed for any given house.

  18. #18
    Driller1 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akpsdvan
    2500 for a GE Autrol valve and what kind of media in what size tank?

    Sounds close to the price for one of my systems installed....

    What kind of water do you have , iron hardness, ph smell... and the number of people, number of bathrooms, number of bedrooms... they all factor into the type and size of equipment needed for any given house.
    Sorry Gary......you just can't hide.

    Why try to pimp someone else's site???
    Trying to help people NOT get cheated ON THE NET.

  19. #19
    Akpsdvan is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driller1
    Sorry Gary......you just can't hide.

    Why try to pimp someone else's site???
    Say what ????????????????

    He and me are not the same,,,, I am NOT Gary,,,,,

  20. #20
    Andy CWS is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akpsdvan
    Say what ????????????????

    He and me are not the same,,,, I am NOT Gary,,,,,
    I can vouch for the that...[:-}

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