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Thread: New site user needs service help!

  1. #21
    NH Master is offline Senior Member
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    yea, I'd like to know where else I can get that "famous for" information from. Just like the assertion that most plumbers don't install filtration and water pumping equipment. Where are the facts to back that up?
    Last edited by Andy CWS; 06-01-2010 at 04:27 AM.

  2. #22
    Gary Slusser is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH Master
    Just like the assertion that most plumbers don't install filtration and water pumping equipment. Where are the facts to back that up?
    What I said about most plumbers and most well drillers is that they don't know water treatment or how to troubleshoot and repair it, and most plumbers don't know how to size pumps. You can go into many forums and ask how many of each do those things or not. I've seen most of them say they don't get involved with those things.

  3. #23
    Akpsdvan is offline Senior Member
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    Some Photos of the set up would be good.

    It would help to make sure that all of us here are on the same page.

    Some are not cross trained in different valves that are on the market.

  4. #24
    NH Master is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser
    What I said about most plumbers and most well drillers is that they don't know water treatment or how to troubleshoot and repair it, and most plumbers don't know how to size pumps. You can go into many forums and ask how many of each do those things or not. I've seen most of them say they don't get involved with those things.

    The number of plumbers and well drillers that are on forums of any kind is probably less than 1/10 of 1% of the plumbers and drillers working in the field so if that's where you are basing your comments you need to ammed it by adding "of those plumbers and well drillers that post on forums"

  5. #25
    Gary Slusser is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH Master
    The number of plumbers and well drillers that are on forums of any kind is probably less than 1/10 of 1% of the plumbers and drillers working in the field so if that's where you are basing your comments you need to ammed it by adding "of those plumbers and well drillers that post on forums"
    I also draw from my 18-19 years as a local water treatment and well pump dealer and recruiting plumbers to sell water treatment equipment and working with some that didn't want to sell it but gave me leads and I paid them a finders fee. Additionally, since mid 2002 I have been contacted by a few thousand consumers that tell me of their experiences with local plumbers that don't do water treatment.

  6. #26
    Driller1 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser
    I also draw from my 18-19 years as a local water treatment and well pump dealer and recruiting plumbers to sell water treatment equipment and working with some that didn't want to sell it but gave me leads and I paid them a finders fee. Additionally, since mid 2002 I have been contacted by a few thousand consumers that tell me of their experiences with local plumbers that don't do water treatment.
    Wow...what kind of a professional sells the names of their customers???
    Trying to help people NOT get cheated ON THE NET.

  7. #27
    NH Master is offline Senior Member
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    Well then, that sums it up then. It must be true. several thousand customers all with plumber/well driller problems. What a world, what a world

    If it were possible, and I doubt it is, I'd bet a years pay that there are far more plumbers and well drillers selling and installing filters than there are pump and filter guys doing the same. In the tri-city area I live in there are over 100 licensed plumbers ( I know, because I teach re-cert classes and have the list) There are 2 count them 2 pump and filter guys. Both of them run pretty small 1 to 2 truck operations and neither seems to be raking in the cash. My company alone probably outsells and installs them 10 to 1. It really pisses me off when someone throws ridiculous statements like that out there without a shred of evidence to support it other than their own perception. Many many plumbers sell and install. The equipment is simple, easy to install and if done by a licensed plumber will be installed to code which is something damn few filter guys do. It ain't rocket science. We regularly service and install equipment that is much more complicated than a valve head that lets water flow through a bedded tank, and yet some here would have you think that you need some magic training to do this. We get the "see my sizing chart" as if there is something special about a chart that was copied off a manufacturers web site and which, can be found on countless other sites along with the programming instructions. A water filter head is no more complicated to program than a set back thermostat. Yet in the same breath we are told that any DIY homeowner can do it. Which is it?, cause ya can't have it both ways.

  8. #28
    Gary Slusser is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driller1
    Wow...what kind of a professional sells the names of their customers???
    Who is selling the names of their customers?

    The plumber had their customer that was interested in improving their water quality call me or, he handled the sale after giving me the data needed to size equipment and I gave him the info. In some cases his customer paid me and I paid the plumber and in others I sold to the plumber and his customer paid him whatever. In many cases the plumber installed the equipment which his customer paid him for.

  9. #29
    Driller1 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser
    Who is selling the names of their customers?

    The plumber had their customer that was interested in improving their water quality call me or, he handled the sale after giving me the data needed to size equipment and I gave him the info. In some cases his customer paid me and I paid the plumber and in others I sold to the plumber and his customer paid him whatever. In many cases the plumber installed the equipment which his customer paid him for.
    You said you paid a "finder's fee".

    I would never take money for the names of my customers.
    Trying to help people NOT get cheated ON THE NET.

  10. #30
    Gary Slusser is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH Master
    Well then, that sums it up then. It must be true. several thousand customers all with plumber/well driller problems. What a world, what a world
    Whatever the number, it seems to be many more than you have heard anything from.

    Quote Originally Posted by NH Master
    In the tri-city area I live in there are over 100 licensed plumbers ( I know, because I teach re-cert classes and have the list) There are 2 count them 2 pump and filter guys. Both of them run pretty small 1 to 2 truck operations and neither seems to be raking in the cash. My company alone probably outsells and installs them 10 to 1.
    There ya go, like most plumbers it's always about the money... And IMO we aren't talking about you or your immediate localized area small number of plumbers when compared to the national numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by NH Master
    It really pisses me off when someone throws ridiculous statements like that out there without a shred of evidence to support it other than their own perception. Many many plumbers sell and install.
    Yes I know you get emotional quite easily, and many plumbers sell and install but that number is a small percentage of all plumbers on a national basis. Those that don't are the ones I'm talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by NH Master
    The equipment is simple, easy to install
    I agree and yet many plumbers will not learn how to repair a control valve.

    Quote Originally Posted by NH Master
    and if done by a licensed plumber will be installed to code which is something damn few filter guys do. It ain't rocket science.
    Again I agree and yet again, DIYers can do it to code too IF THEY WANT TO. It is their house ya know, so silly me, I think that American homeowners have a choice to do it anyway they want to and they can suffer any consequences that decision causes them.

    Quote Originally Posted by NH Master
    We regularly service and install equipment that is much more complicated than a valve head that lets water flow through a bedded tank, and yet some here would have you think that you need some magic training to do this.
    This isn't about you and what or how you do things.

    You may not need training to replace parts on a control valve but you certainly need experience to come up with what parts to replace to cure whatever problems there are with the operation of the equipment. And one of the problems I have with the plumbers my customers hire to do the installation and set up is that they know everything and refuse to follow instructions until they get it wrong and have to call me. Then some get emotional and hang up and muddle through for 30 minutes (thinking of their liability) and then call me again and shut up and listen to me and in 15 minutes they're done and it is done right.

    Quote Originally Posted by NH Master
    We get the "see my sizing chart" as if there is something special about a chart that was copied off a manufacturers web site and which, can be found on countless other sites along with the programming instructions.
    Actually that isn't a chart if you recall. It is a very detailed explanation of how to arrive at correct sizing and programming data. And I beg you to show me other web sites that get into that information with any detail.

    Quote Originally Posted by NH Master
    A water filter head is no more complicated to program than a set back thermostat. Yet in the same breath we are told that any DIY homeowner can do it. Which is it?, cause ya can't have it both ways.
    LOL so now you're saying that a DIYer kinda guy with a set back thermostat can't install it and/or program it!! LOL

    The key is having the correct instructions and data to program a control valve with and only 1 or 2 of the other dealers selling Clack or otehr brands of control valves online give their customers the secret dealers side of the computer instructions or correct data to program with. You can go to their web sites and read their instructions for yourself as I have for years. While you're there, see if you can catch the error in their installation instructions.

    Most plumbers selling water treatment equipment that I hear about and have talked to rely on the supply house to program the stuff they sell and they usually use max settings which provides their customer with terrible salt and water efficiency.

  11. #31
    NH Master is offline Senior Member
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    Again, please post some proof, some real numbers. Until then it's just your opinion.

    As for the secret side of the Clack valve. It's online in Clacks web site. There aint nothing secret about it. We give that information to anyone that buys Clack from us.

  12. #32
    Gary Slusser is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH Master
    Again, please post some proof, some real numbers. Until then it's just your opinion.

    As for the secret side of the Clack valve. It's online in Clacks web site. There aint nothing secret about it. We give that information to anyone that buys Clack from us.
    It's more than my opinion, it is my experience and it's obvious that you don't have any outside your local area.

    Yes the instructions are there but the facts are that my competitors don't tell their customers it is there and they do not tell their customers how to produce the data to be used to program their control valve and neither does Clack's manual. IMO they don't know how to develop the data, and you are questionable because I never see you helping any posters with questions and I could be wrong and it's because of your anti DIYer stance instead.

  13. #33
    NH Master is offline Senior Member
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    Well, what can I say that has not all been said before. If it makes you happy to believe the things you do than by all means, keep on keeping on.
    Last edited by Andy CWS; 06-01-2010 at 04:28 AM.

  14. #34
    Andy CWS is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by shelly
    Thank you for your help! I will continue to try to get someone there. I may have to do it myself....
    I will let you know. Have a good holiday weekend!!
    Shelly
    Shelly,

    I hope we can hear from you again.

    Andy Christensen, CWS-II

  15. #35
    Gary Slusser is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driller1
    You said you paid a "finder's fee".

    I would never take money for the names of my customers.
    You obviously do not know what a finders fee is and are playing your normal picky game of things I say.

    A finders fee is paid when someone, like a plumber, directs his customer to another person and the customer of that first person buys something from the other person. It is paid after the fact.

    I paid the plumber a previously agreed percentage of the purchase price amount IF his customer bought equipment from me. There was no finders fee IF the plumber bought the equipment from me after I sized it for him, he paid my cost plus $100 and charged his customer whatever he charged for the equipment with or without installation.

    There was no list of names involved, offered, sold or paid for. So as usual, you're harassment type assumptions are incorrect.

  16. #36
    Driller1 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser
    You obviously do not know what a finders fee is and are playing your normal picky game of things I say.

    A finders fee is paid when someone, like a plumber, directs his customer to another person and the customer of that first person buys something from the other person. It is paid after the fact.

    I paid the plumber a previously agreed percentage of the purchase price amount IF his customer bought equipment from me. There was no finders fee IF the plumber bought the equipment from me after I sized it for him, he paid my cost plus $100 and charged his customer whatever he charged for the equipment with or without installation.

    There was no list of names involved, offered, sold or paid for. So as usual, you're harassment type assumptions are incorrect.
    Oh, I know what it is. And I find it disgusting.

    They sold names to you. Money changed hands. No way to spin that one.
    Trying to help people NOT get cheated ON THE NET.

  17. #37
    NH Master is offline Senior Member
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    We had a similar arraingement with Roto-Rooter before I found out they were stiffing us and then we went into drain cleaning ourselves.

  18. #38
    Driller1 is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NH Master
    We had a similar arraingement with Roto-Rooter before I found out they were stiffing us and then we went into drain cleaning ourselves.
    I am not surprised. Any person willing to sell their customers or pay for customers, IMO will take advantage anyway they can.

    Glad to hear you got away from them.

    The mobile home places around here tried that with us. They wanted to give us jobs for a "fee".

    I explained to them we don't need a pimp.
    Trying to help people NOT get cheated ON THE NET.

  19. #39
    Gary Slusser is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driller1
    Oh, I know what it is. And I find it disgusting.

    They sold names to you. Money changed hands. No way to spin that one.
    No names were sold. The plumber referred his interested customer to me and the customer called me voluntarily and if he bought from me I paid the plumber a fee out of my advertised price. The customer didn't pay a penny more, I made less money on the sale and the plumber was rewarded for his involvement and in most cases he was paid by his customer to install the equipment. I am the only one that could be said to have suffered any loss, but I saw it as a sale I would not have made otherwise and was happy for and the customer and plumber were happy. It seems only you are unhappy about it!!!!!!

  20. #40
    Andy CWS is offline Moderator
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    Thank you Shelly. You are right about the thread's direction and your relunctancy to come back on. We have often suffered these loses as you described.

    I will glad to work with you privately.

    Thank you,
    Andy Christensen CWS-II
    Moderator

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