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Thread: Florida Home on Well Water

  1. #1
    FloridaBoy is offline Junior Member
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    Default Florida Home on Well Water

    Hello All,

    I purchased an AdvantaPure Home Purifying System while on city water a couple years ago. Now that I'm in a new home on well water, the installer of my AdvantaPure System advised I get an iron tower on the new (well water) house before transporting/installing the AdvantaPure System from the old (city water) house. My iron level at the new house is 28 grains. The existing (cheapo) water filter on the house is only filtering 2 of those 28 grains. He said we can connect the AdvantaPure System AFTER the iron tower, which will then provide pure water to the house. The AdvantaPure System uses KDF as one of its four-part filtering process. The installer said I can install the AdvantaPure System on my new (well water) house, but without an iron tower it will only purify water for 1.5 years before the iron overtakes the filter and ruins it.

    My question: which iron tower system should I purchase?
    Note: my water smells like pennies, appears a bit green/yellow, and feels really hard

    Thanks,

    Brian

  2. #2
    Andy CWS is offline Moderator
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    As we advise all persons coming on the forum and looking for recommendations, I will advise you likewise: get accurate water quality tests FIRST!

    Never buy any water treatment equipment without knowing what it is you want to remove and hope to gain.

    That being said, you may need to understand some glossary terms. The word "Pure" is a marketing term not a water treatment term, and meant to attract consummers in the belief they are getting "PURE" water. Nothing can be further from the truth as pure H20 rarely, if ever, occurs on planet earth except under very controlled experiements and usually for the briefest of moments.

    Secondly, Advantapure's recommendation of taking your city water unit and saying it will work on well water, with or without a so-called iron tower, is not very good advice. Understand your water first.

    Moreover, iron is not measured in grains, Hardness is, but not iron, which is measured in ppm. And 29ppm iron would be of biblical proportions...maybe 2.9ppm???

    Water "filters" cannot soften water even by 2 grains so the measuring device is not working or the type of equipment is being misrepresented, or not understood.

    KDF can be a fine media if placed in the right environment. It can remove (convert) chlorine but you don't have that on well water. So not a very good idea. The other three media (?) are also probably meant to treat city water but not well water.

    Does this system have a backwashing valve or does the water simply flow through it? If no vlave, is it an upflow or a down flow filter?

    Lots of questions but I am afraid taking that advice with the limited amount of info given, is very risky....READ: costly.

    Andy Christensen

  3. #3
    pawaterguy is offline Senior Member
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    adding to Andys post:

    get at LEAST the following info on the well water you now have:

    Hardness
    iron
    PH
    TDS
    nitrates
    bacteria (e coli and coliform namely)


    those things will get the ball rolling. if possible, also find the GPM of your pump to see what limitations you may have with backwashing if you install a backwashing unit or units.

  4. #4
    FloridaBoy is offline Junior Member
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    Andy CWS, pawaterguy,

    Guys, thanks so much for the quick reply and for steering me in the right direction. As you can tell I am not a water person - just want clean water to my house. Do you have any recommendations as to how I can get a water test done, to include what pawaterguy listed below? Should I order a test online and have it shipped to me and do it myself? Should I take a sample to the local swimming pool store that does water tests? Andy CWS, here is the link which takes you directly to the water purfiying system I have (not currently installed): http://www.avantapurefl.com/refiner.html

    Thanks,

    Brian

  5. #5
    pawaterguy is offline Senior Member
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    those types of units are very appealing to consumers looking to do it themselves and use one piece of equipment that can take care of multiple issues. the problems only occur down the road. IMO, it's always better to remove chlorine before the softener with a dechlor unit (a dedicated tank full of carbon for chlorine removal), followed by a sediment filter (sediment filtering aside, you want to make sure no carbon fines come through) and then the softener and an RO unit for the drinking water. Now, that's city water. On a well there is generally no need for carbon (unless we get into sulfur and that's another animal in itself) so now you have to start with a whole new set of criteria based on the well water. the multiple units may be more costly up front but will save in the long run in servicing, rebedding, etc. From what I've seen of units like the one you posted, if one of those medias goes bad (let's say the resin) then you may as well throw the entire unit out and start new because now you have to rebed resin, KDF, etc and the cost gets to be prohibitive. See where I'm going??? I'd find a local water conditioning company (not a plumber...a specialist if possible...maybe a Kinetico dealer if there is one in your area) to come out and do the testing and recommend accordingly. Good luck! You can find a local dealer through their website: http://www.kinetico.com/
    Last edited by pawaterguy; 02-24-2011 at 05:12 PM.

  6. #6
    FloridaBoy is offline Junior Member
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    pawaterguy,

    Yes, Kinetico is in my area. I'll give them a call tomorrow. Thank you for the additional information. I'll let you know what they say about 1) my well water and 2) their recommendation(s).

    Brian

  7. #7
    FloridaBoy is offline Junior Member
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    Hey Guys,

    Okay, the waterman representing Kinetico just left my house. What a joke. Within the first five minutes of our conversation he tells me, "I want to sell you something". He then proceeds to talk about the Kinetico RO A200 system. He says I have iron and tannin (spelling?) of which this system will treat. He said the system will produce water better than my name brand bottled water, as he points to the stack of bottled water in my garage. I ask him how he knows I have iron and he said because he's installed other systems in the neighborhood. I then ask him if he plans to test my water (duh!) and he said "yes". My water tested, and I quote, "15 grains of hardness, a little iron, and a little tannin". He was using an old pool water testing kit. He said I need the A200 system in the kitchen and to top off the white resin in my existing home filtration system. He tells me I should "peddle" my other system from my old city water home because it's mixed (whatever that means). Lastly, after I told him my dinner is on the table (trying to get him to leave) he asks if I want to purchase the A200 system. After I said "no" he left me with a nice sales flyer and a business card.

    Frustrated.

  8. #8
    Andy CWS is offline Moderator
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    Can you explain what you mean by topping off white resin in your filtration system? I don't know many filters that use resins.

    Did he offer the A200 as his first recommendation? No TDS test? No pH test? How did he determine tannins? Were those tests on the raw water or after your filter?

    Where are you located?

    Andy Christensen
    Last edited by Andy CWS; 03-02-2011 at 05:30 AM.

  9. #9
    FloridaBoy is offline Junior Member
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    Can you explain what you mean by topping off white resin in your filtration system? I don't know many filters that use resins.

    I have no idea. Although, he said if my existing filtration system didn't have any resin he could put some in for $200 or $100 if I also purchased the RO system. Later he said it would be a good idea to top it off if my filtration system already had it.

    Did he offer the A200 as his first recommendation?

    Yes.

    No TDS test? No pH test?

    No. No.

    How did he determiont tannins?

    He used a dropper to drop a chemical in the water. There was one test that was a reddish color (iron) and the other test was a tan/brown-ish color (suppose that was the tannins test). Note, he presumed tannins were in my water before the test.

    Were those tests on the raw water or after your filter?

    Raw water, straight from my pump spigot.

    Where are you located?

    Brevard County

  10. #10
    pawaterguy is offline Senior Member
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    Yikes! So many issues...where to start. he didn't do himself or the products he sells any favors there if it went down that way. Even on city water I never begin without testing. I know the general info on my areas water...but even that can change. One town near here pulls from a few different wells and when the one well is in use the water spikes to over 30 grains of hardness (compared to 20 or so on average). Plus, I don't understand why he chooses the A200 and I'm sure Andy shares my confusion there considering the K5 unit. I expected more from a Kinetico guy is all. I would actually contact Kinetico directly if I were you. That is not how any company wants its product presented.

  11. #11
    FloridaBoy is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for the feedback. To be clear, the waterman doesn't work for Kinetico directly but an authorized representative. His employer is a pool service company. I will call Kinetico (the company) today.

  12. #12
    FloridaBoy is offline Junior Member
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    I called Kinetico and documented my experience with the Customer Relations department. They said they will put this record in the authorized representatives file, share it with their team, and have management possibly call me back for follow-up. In the meantime I also contacted another authorized representative - the rep for Brevard County - and booked an appointment for this weekend. He was professional. After talking with Kinetico I now understand the guy from last night should never have been at my house because the representatives are restricted to their territory by county.

  13. #13
    Andy CWS is offline Moderator
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    I thought something was off...if for anything else, he was recommending the A200 first off. ROs are not meant to remove iron, hardness or tannins. Although they will, there are not expected to be the initial treatment against those elements,

  14. #14
    FloridaBoy is offline Junior Member
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    I had the correct Kinetico guy for my territory over last week. He was professional and knowledgeable. His solution was the K5 RO unit for the kitchen, and their double-tower on-demand unit(s) for outside. The total price was $3,000.00. I had some sticker shock. A neighbor mentioned a local company that he's used for years. I called them and the technician (also the owner of the company) quoted me $650 for their Watershield (TM) Big Pump RO system for the kitchen. They said they can salvage most of my outside unit, with the unit from my old house, and provide two separate towers (water softener and resin on one, and resins(s) in the other) for another $950. He said he'll install the RO and outside systems at the same time, or we can wait between installations - the total price ($1,600) will not change.

  15. #15
    FloridaBoy is offline Junior Member
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    I forgot to include my test results:

    Hardness - 43 gpg
    Iron (rust) - 1 ppm
    pH (acid) - 7.0
    T.D.S. - 490 ppm
    Tannin - (slight)

    Thanks,

    Brian

  16. #16
    asmart82 is offline Junior Member
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    What did you end up doing with your system? Did you test the water yourself or did you get those results from one of the water companies?

  17. #17
    FloridaBoy is offline Junior Member
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    The results were taken by the Kinetico rep. We ended up getting the 2060s and the K5 RO unit. The price was steep but we enjoy the water.

  18. #18
    pawaterguy is offline Senior Member
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    Good choice. I'm sure you'll enjoy it for years to come.

  19. #19
    motwinsplus1g is offline Junior Member
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    Default Questions re: Kinetico units

    Questions: We are on a city well that draws from a few different wells. In your experience, does being on a city well justify having an RO unit such as the K5? We get a water report every year, but I still wonder... especially since the report is taken from one well. If we're on the fence, would it make sense to go ahead w/the whole house 4040s until we've done more research regarding the RO system?

    I am wondering about the removal of all chlorine. Does this allow for bacteria to build up in the tanks? The Kinetico guy said that it would not, but I question that, as he didn't provide a detailed explanation. He told us that our water was about an 8 in hardness.

    Also, I think I read somewhere that the K5 (flow) automatically shuts off when the filters need changing, is this true? The Macguard. This would not be good if we were in the middle of cooking, etc.

    I'm still having trouble finding how much replacement filters cost. Any ideas, even approx. Thanks!

  20. #20
    pawaterguy is offline Senior Member
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    If you use a standard set of filters (no extras) it would probably run you $60 or so for the pair. 500 gallons gets most people through a year. That's an average. If you cook with it you may burn through them faster. Once the chlorine is injected by the town into the supply it has done its job. It kills the bacteria and sanitizes the water. From there on it's a nuisance. It wears on plumbing seals and all things plastic/petro based. The resin in a softener being a poly material it is subject to the harsh environment chlorine presents to it. Removal of the chlorine before the softener ensures you the longest life of the softener possible. Filtering the water beforehand also helps as it removes any particulates from doing harm as they asps through. The softener is removing calcium, iron and manganese. Calcium being the most important. There are other "things" or "stuff" in the water that can be removed for better taste and safer drinking water. These are the things the RO pulls out. You'll have (sometimes better than) bottled water from a tap at your sink. Going back to the bacteria...once it's treated with the chlorine that same bacteria cannot grow again. If something new were to develop in the softener it would probably indicate a larger issue. There are plenty of softeners out there on well water (the well having been tested and proven free of bacteria) that have no issues with bacterial growth. I hope that addresses your issue???

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